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Time for a new list: my top 222 games (with short writeups).

Mac Arrowny | Posted 5/13/2008 4:27:06 PM | message detail | #301
My cousin beat all of Vagrant Story without changing weapons. He did this by being a freaking master of Chaining. I like that Vagrant Story gives you multiple ways to play through it - you can play with skill, or with strategy.
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All you love is a lie.
Brawl FC: 4253-3155-6697
transience | Posted 5/13/2008 4:30:39 PM | message detail | #302
47. Dragon Warrior Monsters 2 (GBC)

DWM2 is a nice middle ground between the original and DWM4 - it's more "modern" and bigger than DWM1, and retains the old style that Joker abandoned for new mechanics. It's also got magic keys, items that give the game a huge amount of post-game content thanks to an infinite number of randomly generated worlds. In a lot of ways, DWM2 is the best of the series.

It feels like half a game though. DWM2 abandons randomly generated worlds, but the result is a game that ends before you know it and a bunch of weird trigger pointing that isn't always fun. DWM2 starts slow, and once it gets going it's over, leaving you with just the randomly generated worlds. The result is a game that's slightly disappointing because it could have been *great* if it felt polished.

46. Mike Tyson's Punch-Out! (NES)

Punch-Out is more a test of reflexes and learning patterns than it is a sports game. Entertaining sound effects, stupid characters and over-acted motions give this game a hell of a lot of charm, and keep it fun for a long time. I love playing this thing in random spurts, and for a while I had a dream of beating it without getting hit. I'd always screw up on Sandman though. Those damn hands screw with my head!

One day, if I actually get motivated enough to speed run something again, I will do this game. This game has a ton of potential for speed running but for some reason no one's ever done it. Shame.

45. Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII (PSP)

It's amazing what a mission system can do for a game. Crisis Core is not really very good. The main story is like a parody of Square plotlines, with convoluted melodrama that makes you laugh and say "...man, what happened to you, Square?". The new characters get mixed reviews at best. The gameplay is fun, but the levelling system is completely random (which is a big negative), and the materia system is the single most broken thing I've ever seen. I completely broke this game without even trying and nerfed the hell out of the difficulty.

The missions are repetitive as hell and not very interesting, but there's something completely addicting about trying to do missions way above your level. The rewards aren't even all that good half the time, but you just keep on going until you've been doing them for hours at a time. It beats FFX-2's missions to death, and the gameplay hooks you. There's a bunch of things you can complain about, but overall the mission system takes an average game and improves it tenfold.

And I haven't even mentioned the FF7 nostalgia. This game is pure "fanservice", but unlike FFX-2 it's actually tasteful and appreciated. Crisis Core takes Midgar and makes it feel alive. I'm far from the biggest FF7 fan, but even I loved seeing Midgar in 3d. It made me interested in the long-rumoured-and-inevitable FF7 remake. I loved the music, most of which was taken straight from FF7. I loved seeing the Shinra Building again. I loved the Turks being (mostly) on your side. I loved the slums. I loved naming Seventh Heaven. I especially loved Nibelheim. But most of all, I loved seeing old characters return. Crisis Core is all about three characters: Zack, Cloud and Sephiroth, and I find that whole storyline captivating. The new characters and story are kinda sucky, but the game is born out of FF7 lore and and the relationships between the old characters are absolutely great. Crisis Core is really a must-play for any big fan of FF7.
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transience | Posted 5/13/2008 4:32:08 PM | message detail | #303
actually, I find the NES version of Arkanoid with a controller fairly playable. I mean, it's instant death at super high speeds, but you're probably going to die anyway, so it's not that bad.
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transience | Posted 5/13/2008 4:32:57 PM | message detail | #304
plus, it came with a paddle controller! I should buy one of those someday.
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transience | Posted 5/13/2008 6:01:39 PM | message detail | #305
44. God of War 2 (PS2)

God of War 2 stands alone in the action genre for its technical achievements. The over-the-top style, the intense music, the "epic" feel, all with a complete lack of load times -- these achievements are unmatched, even with new consoles having been out for a couple of years now. God of War is exciting and fun, a series that was very obviously going to be enormous the second you laid eyes on it. The idea of God of War 3 on the super-duper PS3 has me pumped.

The downsides to GOW2 are well-documented. The combat system is button-mashy goodness, unless you have to fight a boss, in which case it gets kinda blah. Those stupid medusas can suck my ass. One hit kills in the middle of an attack? Thanks! God of War is an unbalanced game, there's no way around it. The puzzles are okay for a change of pace, but aren't particularly interesting. That's not to say they're bad, but GOW is all about over-the-top action, not button-pressing and lever-turning. Fighting packs of enemies is great fun though, as are the QTE death scenes. Love those.

43. Final Fantasy Tactics (PS1)

The FF7 of the SRPG genre. You'd be hard-pressed to find a SRPG fan in the PS1/PS2 era that didn't start with FFT. FFT does so many things right, and the core of the game is the job system, something that has been almost completely neglected in the genre for some stupid reason. FFT is a game with a cool political story (the PSP version really made me like the story and characters more, even if half of it is because of the hilariously pretentious translation and ARGATH), seriously addicting gameplay and a nice difficulty level, save for a couple annoying fights (argh execution site i will end you). I love this game's class system. The only thing holding this game back from being top-tier for me is that I end up running out of good things to learn towards the end of the game. I get to chapter 4 and just get bored because I'll have learned all the good ninja/monk/lancer/etc skills and it's like "well, what now?" I often don't finish what I start when it comes to FFT.

42. Portal (multiplatform)

I've never played a second of Portal. I don't know how the game controls, I can't tell if there's anything about the physics that messes with me, I can't really complain about the game.

And quite frankly, I don't think it matters one bit. Portal is a weird puzzle/FPS hybrid that's absolutely amazing to watch/try to figure out together with friends, and the idea of shooting portals all around is amazing. There's something about the idea that just screams ingenious. Sometimes you sit there thinking about what to do, come up with something completely crazy and feel like a genius. Portal has that effect on you - the game lets you experiment with all sorts of wild ideas and gets you flat out giddy at the results. It makes the game feel fresh and exciting, something untouched in today's brand of games. (which isn't to say that today's games lack excitement and innovation -- Portal is just that exciting)

And that's not even getting to the quirky humour that Portal presents. Between the exciting gameplay and the wildly fun GLADOS, Portal is one of the freshest titles I've ever played. And it doesn't even really do anything special outside of the portal gun. It's just too bad it's only 4-5 hours.
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ZFS | Posted 5/13/2008 7:17:13 PM | message detail | #306
woo God of War 2


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6.12.2008 -- Sneak Out
therealmnm | Posted 5/13/2008 9:52:19 PM | message detail | #307

I've never played a second of Portal....

...Portal is one of the freshest titles I've ever played.


Huh?
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Currently playing: Super Paper Mario, GTAIV, SSBB, MP3, SMG, The Darkness, PW3, Ninja Gaiden DS, LoZ:PH, Dracula X
Kaxon | Posted 5/13/2008 11:36:25 PM | message detail | #308
actually, I find the NES version of Arkanoid with a controller fairly playable. I mean, it's instant death at super high speeds, but you're probably going to die anyway, so it's not that bad.

That's exactly what annoyed me about it - the fact that sometimes it's physically impossible to move your paddle fast enough to get to the ball in time. It always made me feel cheated, and there were some times when it wouldn't even have been a very hard catch with the mouse. The graphics were also substantially worse on the NES. It would probably be fun if I weren't used to a better version, but the Arcade version and the IIgs version that I played are a lot better.

Random comments on games:
Mike Tyson's Punch-Out: I never managed to beat Tyson. =(
Crisis Core: Although I still have a long way to go I think I agree with your assessment mostly. The missions are addictive and the battle system is great, mostly because it's fast. The nostalgia aspect is also handled well. So far the main thing about the story that's bugged me is that they got their timeline screwed up - 7 years before FF VII, Cloud would be 14 and I don't think he'd left Nibelheim yet.
FFT: I love the PSP translation, but yeah, I've probably played through Chapter 1 of this game 5 or 6 times while only finishing the thing once. For whatever reason I just don't stick with it.
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I made a living on time trial blowing myself off to cross the finish line at ludicrous speed. -transience
Levia_Dragon | Posted 5/13/2008 11:37:49 PM | message detail | #309
i count watching and helping my friends and bros with games as playing them myself

maybe that is what tranny means!
transience | Posted 5/13/2008 11:44:05 PM | message detail | #310
err, I type "played" naturally. you know what I mean!
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TheKnightOfNee | Posted 5/14/2008 12:43:36 AM | message detail | #311
If you haven't played Portal, maybe give Narbacular Drop a look. The people who made Portal made that game as a project before they got hired into Valve. It has the same basic gameplay elements with the portals, and the puzzles are good. I haven't played Portal yet either, but I'd imagine Portal is a lot more refined, but they look to be based off the same gameplay concept.
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Sushi, Kamikaze, Fujiyama, Nippon-Ichi...
"you have to cut weiner holes in all of your hats, sorry" -gotspork
TheKnightOfNee | Posted 5/14/2008 12:48:48 AM | message detail | #312
Also, in Punch Out, I find the thing I get hit most by is Soda Popinski's jab. He's the only one to consistently throw lefts all fight, so that's his main challenge, and my focus is over there. And then once a round, he right arm just pops out, and always nails me in the face. I never, ever see it coming.
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Sushi, Kamikaze, Fujiyama, Nippon-Ichi...
"you have to cut weiner holes in all of your hats, sorry" -gotspork
transience | Posted 5/14/2008 12:50:13 AM | message detail | #313
did I ever show you this?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2FgJpTJb6uw

I still have no idea why the hell he doesn't punch when he ducks down
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RayDyn | Posted 5/14/2008 1:24:21 AM | message detail | #314
tranny, i need your help remembering the name of a game, it's kinda like Life Force, but the vertical levels go from the top down instead of bottom up. Any idea?

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~=Please insert liquor=~
http://www.futurama-madhouse.com.ar/fanart/kenneth/bender_auron.jpg
TheKnightOfNee | Posted 5/14/2008 2:13:57 AM | message detail | #315
You never showed me that video, but I've seen it before. There's so much weird stuff in that fight.
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Sushi, Kamikaze, Fujiyama, Nippon-Ichi...
"you have to cut weiner holes in all of your hats, sorry" -gotspork
Zylo the wolf | Posted 5/14/2008 7:16:08 AM | message detail | #316
You'd be hard-pressed to find a SRPG fan in the PS1/PS2 era that didn't start with FFT

Hi ^_^. Vandal Hearts > FFT.

And I've said it before Tranny, I really like you as a user, but you taste in games i bleh ^_^
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Ngamer64: Zylo, you're making less sense every day. EC > Me
transience | Posted 5/14/2008 11:28:58 AM | message detail | #317
uhh, no idea.

man you can't insult my taste while claiming Vandal Hearts is better than FFT, that's just borderline dumb
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transience | Posted 5/14/2008 11:57:44 AM | message detail | #318
41. Final Fantasy 7 (PS1)

FF7 is the rare game that doesn't do anything truly wrong. There's not a lot of peaks to the game - there's only a couple really great scenes, I can't think of a really fun boss, the characters are decent but never great - but the game never has a true flaw. What FF7 *does* have is a really atmospheric soundtrack and a plot that builds and builds throughout the first disc. The last few hours of cd1 - Nibelheim to Aeris - is the one part of FF7 that I think is great. cd2 drops the ball considerably with its lack of direction, but even then it's pretty enjoyable. FF7 is just a highly enjoyable game.

(of course, this thing needs a remake like no other - the graphics are pretty painful and the control is worse)

40. Actraiser (SNES)

Part sidescrolling action, part town sim. The sidescrolling action is the exciting part, but I have a strange fondness for the town sim aspects. Actraiser is pretty damn easy and you can get through it in a sitting if you really want, but I find myself going back to it over and over, even a week after I beat it. No idea why.

39. The Legend of Zelda (NES)

Combat > exploration for me when it comes to Zelda, and only the original truly comes through in that regard. Most people seem to get frustrated by the lack of direction and the packs of enemies that give them trouble, but I love it. That complete freedom, along with a world that isn't all that large is something that I like a lot in old games. You don't need 30 minutes to get across the map in Zelda 1. Zelda 1's brevity and different routes make this a game that's easy to pick up and play anytime.

(I always wanted a Zelda 1 hack that contained a multi-floor dungeon type deal - just room after room of enemies, with the difficulty slowly rising until it's absolutely brutal. Start with bats, then add the little brown slime-y things, then add Darknuts, then Wizrobes, then both, then both with fireballs -- whenever I tell someone this, they think I'm masochistic. Oh well.)

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Zylo the wolf | Posted 5/14/2008 12:01:03 PM | message detail | #319
I can insult your taste as much as I want to. It's not that Vandal Hearts is that great, it's just better than FFT.

The original Zelda this high, maybe you actually got some taste.


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Ngamer64: Zylo, you're making less sense every day. EC > Me
RayDyn | Posted 5/14/2008 2:13:57 PM | message detail | #320
Nevermind tranny, I think I figured out what game I was thinking of, ever played Abadox?

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~=Please insert liquor=~
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transience | Posted 5/14/2008 2:14:24 PM | message detail | #321
yeaaaaars ago, but damned if I remember even what it is.
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transience | Posted 5/14/2008 2:26:35 PM | message detail | #322
38. Geometry Wars: Galaxies (Wii)

Geometry Wars is fantastic. Take ultra-simple controls - just two analog sticks and a bomb button - add in loads of enemies and trippy backgrounds, and you've got an amazing shooter. Geometry Wars suffers a bit from being able to shoot in only eight directions, but once you get used to that, it's got an old-school arcade feel to it that feels fresh if only because it hasn't been explored in some time.

Then you've got Galaxies, where you add dozens of unique boards, new enemies, multiple drones that fight alongside you, and awards for reaching a certain score on a board, and you've got Geometry Wars with replay value. The Wii version isn't actually as good as the 360 XBLA version due to the constraints of the console, but the loads of new modes make up for it ten times over.

37. We Love Katamari (PS2)

Fun stuff. Improves on the original in every area but music, and the "big" level is among the best single levels of all time. WLK has some brutal load times as the board scales bigger, but ignoring that, this game is pretty much the ideal sandbox type game. A really good game to play hard for a week, stop for six months and then do it all over again.

36. Crystalis (NES)

One of the most impressive games for its time. Crystalis's world is huge by NES standards, but not so huge that you get lost in it. The storyline is pretty silly due to the awesome engrish, but tops everything but traditional RPGs in that category. Cool skills, enjoyable battles, addicting as hell music -- Crystalis is an ideal NES game. The only problems are the way you can't hurt stuff unless you're of a certain level and the amount of menu-hopping due to having enemies that can only be hurt by one of four elemental swords.


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RayDyn | Posted 5/14/2008 2:34:44 PM | message detail | #323
Aww yeah, number 36. I still have my copy.

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neonreaper | Posted 5/14/2008 2:39:35 PM | message detail | #324
I miss games like Crystalis. The dungeons were fun, the bosses were fun, the weapons were neat, the towns were fun, you probably wanted to grind but it wasn't horrible to do so.. etc. I also thought the ending was nice and all.
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Kaxon | Posted 5/14/2008 2:48:45 PM | message detail | #325
Lotsa good stuff in post 318.

FF VII - I think it does have a number of great parts. Midgar in general was great, and the Nibelheim flashback section was probably the highlight of the game. As far as great scenes, there's the impaled Midgar Zolom, Sephiroth in the flames, and the obvious end of disc 1 scene, which are probably the most memorable, but there are a lot of moments in the game that were pretty memorable to me.

Actraiser - Aw yeah, awesome game. I inexplicably like the town sim part too.

Zelda 1 - Yep, the complete freedom was awesome, and the map is just about the right size - big enough to be interesting to explore, but it doesn't take forever to get across it. The problem with a game like OoT is that it takes longer to get across the map but there's actually less stuff there - LoZ has something on every screen basically.

I do think Zelda 2 was the one other Zelda game that put a fair emphasis on the combat.
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transience | Posted 5/14/2008 3:10:57 PM | message detail | #326
I never got the big deal with Sephiroth in the flames, though I do agree that Nibelheim is the highlight of FF7. that and the whole city of the ancients thing.

Crisis Core is the same way with Nibelheim.
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RayDyn | Posted 5/14/2008 3:21:49 PM | message detail | #327
I will say it's a cool shot, but I really don't understand it's purpose.

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neonreaper | Posted 5/14/2008 3:29:36 PM | message detail | #328
Sephiroth laying waste to everything, giving a wicked look and walking through the flames was badass.
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this magic moment, so different and so new
was like any other, until I met you
neonreaper | Posted 5/14/2008 3:30:54 PM | message detail | #329
Actraiser's town-sim is awesome... instead of building Nuclear Plants and saving money for Airports like in SimCity, you shoot demons.
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this magic moment, so different and so new
was like any other, until I met you
Kaxon | Posted 5/14/2008 4:18:38 PM | message detail | #330
Crisis Core is the same way with Nibelheim.

Cool, I'm looking forward to that. I'm in the MGS sneak part right now, I kept getting caught and I haven't played for a few days.
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I made a living on time trial blowing myself off to cross the finish line at ludicrous speed. -transience
trannyscience | Posted 5/14/2008 6:01:14 PM | message detail | #331
I just kept failing until everyone was dead. :)
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trannyscience | Posted 5/14/2008 6:54:16 PM | message detail | #332
35. N+ (Xbox 360)

N is a mean, painful, addicting platformer. It looks simple enough - a little stick figure dude, a bunch of platforms and the occasional hazard - but soon the game ramps up the difficulty to often hilarious results. N isn't as rigid as Jumper, but the result is the same -- "oh what the hell", followed by massive death, a sense of ingenuity, progress and then excitement at pulling off a seriously hard level, followed by an even harder one staring at you one second later. N+ is pretty much the perfect platformer, complete with some 250 levels, crazy floaty physics that are fun to play with and difficult to master, and a simplicity that makes for a fantastic level editor. You can make levels in five minutes that are great torturous fun.

I think my favourite part of the game is the main theme, though. It loops endlessly for hours, and I never mind hearing it. Pretty amazing, really.

34. Dragon Warrior 3 (NES/GBC)

Best Dragon Warrior by a good amount. DW3 has the simplicity of the originals, but adds cool things like a class system, gambling on monsters, and a neat plot twist ending. It's easy to get lost once you get the boat -- such is the case of all DW games, really -- but the addicting gameplay and the class system keeps you hooked.

33. Zork (PC)

I can play this game without even opening it -- north, north, up, get egg, down, south, southeast, open window, west, open sack, get garlic, west, get all, move rug, open trap door, down, turn lantern on, north, kill troll with sword, etc etc -- and yet, I can still play it and have fun. I've beaten this game an uncountable amount of times over the past 20 years, and oddly enough, I don't really have much nostalgia towards it. I don't get brought back to my childhood or anything, it's just something I legitimately enjoy for completely no reason.
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Whit3_Rabb1t | Posted 5/14/2008 7:00:41 PM | message detail | #333
my moms favorite game is zork
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Whit3_Rabb1t | Posted 5/14/2008 7:00:59 PM | message detail | #334
(you're old)
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trannyscience | Posted 5/14/2008 7:01:48 PM | message detail | #335
email me her phone number
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ZFS | Posted 5/14/2008 7:03:41 PM | message detail | #336
north, north, up, get egg, down, south, southeast, open window, west, open sack, get garlic, west, get all, move rug, open trap door, down, turn lantern on, north, kill troll with sword, etc etc

Ha. Awesome.

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6.12.2008 -- Sneak Out
Not Dave | Posted 5/14/2008 7:06:35 PM | message detail | #337
i want n+.


ND
trannyscience | Posted 5/14/2008 7:08:32 PM | message detail | #338
it's right up your alley. I believe N is a freeware game, so you can get that and play with it.
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Whit3_Rabb1t | Posted 5/14/2008 7:12:04 PM | message detail | #339
i want n+ too but i don't have a 360

I'd try to convince friends to get it, but if it's not Halo, Madden, GTA, or Call of Duty 4, they won't touch it.
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Not Dave | Posted 5/14/2008 7:27:19 PM | message detail | #340
apparently it's coming out on DS. i'll have to snag that.


ND
Whit3_Rabb1t | Posted 5/14/2008 7:27:26 PM | message detail | #341
Also, the makers of Jumper released An Untitled Story (A semi-fun Metroid but not really type thing) and Flail (Difficult, fun, simple platforming). Both are worth a try.
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trannyscience | Posted 5/14/2008 7:28:51 PM | message detail | #342
I've heard that a different company is making the DS version of N. not sure if that's true or not.
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Whit3_Rabb1t | Posted 5/14/2008 7:32:18 PM | message detail | #343
A link probably would've been nice.

http://www.mattmakesgames.com/games.php
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trannyscience | Posted 5/14/2008 7:36:32 PM | message detail | #344
Flail looks just like Jumper.
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trannyscience | Posted 5/14/2008 8:50:28 PM | message detail | #345
32. Uniracers (SNES)

The best SNES racing game - Uniracers is practically 1d since you only move in one direction, and that straightforward approach, along with some decent speed, makes for a really fun pick-up-and-play racer. The downside to this game is that it uses the Mario Kart formula of going faster when you're behind, but at least it's not pounding you with six thousand red shells. The result is a game that friends can play together regardless of skill level.

screw the anti-uni

31. Final Fantasy 9 (PS1)

Lots of good stuff in this game. The AP/skill system and unique characters battle-wise are probably my favourite parts, but the charming story and settings, Zidane/Vivi/Kuja and all the throwback aspects of this game are also great. There's a number of things you can complain about, from the load times to the battle speed to some particularly annoying characters (argh garnet/eiko), but the positives outshine them bigtime.

30. Metroid Fusion (GBA)

Eschews several Metroid mainstays to mixed results. The intrusive story and the lack of bomb/walljumping are just unforgivable to a freak like me, but the atmosphere it creates, along with the SA-X, makes it the most tense 2d Metroid by far. The story and lack of sequence breaking kills the most appealing part of Metroid games, though - replayability. It's still a great game with cool abilities and all that, but yeah.


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Kaxon | Posted 5/14/2008 9:36:57 PM | message detail | #346
some particularly annoying characters (argh steiner/amarant)

Fixed.
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I made a living on time trial blowing myself off to cross the finish line at ludicrous speed. -transience
transience | Posted 5/15/2008 1:50:24 AM | message detail | #347
29. Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together (SNES/PS1)

LUCT is kind of like the FF1 of the SRPG genre - it's far simpler than FFT, it's super grind-y and really unforgiving - and there's something completely addicting and fantastic that I adore. The battles are intense because one wrong move and you're dead for good -- which means you're hitting reset -- and they're really exciting when you pull off a perfect fight. The storyline is flat out hilarious, and the fact that there's three plot paths you can take gives the game lots of replay value. Just writing this makes me want to play it again. :)


28. Contra 4 (DS)

Pretty much the ultimate 2d action game. Three difficulties that were carefully thought out, a challenge mode that's absolutely crazy at times, and a ton of unlockables, including the original games. Great level design, neat bosses, powerups that are far more balanced than the original games. Contra 4 has so much love poured into it, something you can't say for a lot of handheld games. This might be the most impressive handheld game I've ever played.

27. Lost Odyssey (Xbox 360)

So damn close to being a game for the ages. Lost Odyssey's pros are flat-out amazing. The presentation and graphics are great - the jump in hardware shows the potential of a "next-gen" RPG, and it has me excited for the future. The gameplay is pretty good too - there's some things you can nitpick on, but for the most part it's a fun traditional battle system a la FF9. The story is ambitious and damn good. The characters and their interactions are pretty good, save for a couple of kids that JRPG developers seem to love tossing in if only to annoy me.

But Lost Odyssey is flawed, and its flaws kind of flow together to make the effect than it is. The load times are absolutely ridiculous, especially between battles, and the game has some seriously questionable dungeon design. The game also has a Suikoden-like levelling system where enemies just stop giving exp after a certain point. Put these three together and a lot of frustration occurs - bad dungeons with poor load times with no reward. The pacing is also brutal, and while the game has a great story, you don't always want to read the random, unconnected 20 minute stories that the game has laying all over the place. Fix these flaws and this could be a top 5 game - the strengths are just that good.


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ZFS | Posted 5/15/2008 1:56:40 AM | message detail | #348
Agree on most of the points about Odyssey. There's a whole lot of good there, but it's got some definite issues.

Don't know that I'd compare the battle system to FF9, though. FF10 seems more appropriate.

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6.12.2008 -- Sneak Out
transience | Posted 5/15/2008 1:59:46 AM | message detail | #349
oh, I just mean the skill system. battle system is more FF10 than anything else, I suppose, but it's not even that close to that. pretty unique.
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Theo72 | Posted 5/15/2008 2:06:43 AM | message detail | #350
awww yeah contra 4

I do have to agree that a ton of love went into that game. Wayforward knew exactly what they were doing.
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You have not heard the last of me...
And you never will...
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